If you’re not already familiar with the story, the New York Post ran a cartoon in which two police offers stood with guns drawn after having shot a chimpanzee dead and one of the cops says “They’ll have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill.” The day before, a real-life chimpanzee had attacked someone and had been shot dead by police, however, the cartoon was immediately interpreted by Al Sharpton and other opportunists who make money off of stirring up controversy over race as being an inherently racist message, comparing President Obama to a monkey, and advocating his assasination.
I don’t know if the cartoon was racist or not, but I would find it hard to believe the artist and paper didn’t have an inkling of how it would be interpreted, although they may have underestimated the negative response. That said, I have to admit that I could also see it being completely innocent.
I grew up in the Los Angeles area in a middle-class, predominantly white and Asian suburb. There were a few black kids at my school, but they didn’t self-segregate and as far as I know they never experienced any racism. Nobody cared. It was a non-issue. You could say that Martin Luther King’s dream had come true in my city. Of course I had heard the N-word growing up, but I had never heard the term “tar baby,” I didn’t know what “cotton-pickin’” referred to, and I had no idea that black people were sometimes insultingly referred to as monkeys, chimps, or gorillas. I don’t think I knew about the slur until I was over 30.
It’s easily possible that I could have become aware of a situation in which a black person did something and I could have referred to their behavior as being like that of a monkey. I would have had no idea I was perpetuating a racial slur, because I was largely ignorant of the glossary of racial slurs and stereotypes. To someone who has grown up hearing such slurs, this might seem unbelievable, but it’s true in my case, and it may be true in more cases than you think.
What if the cartoonist for the New York Post and the editors who ok’d its printing had no idea about the monkey/black man slur? Every part of that cartoon can be connected to something other than Obama. The cartoon obviously wouldn’t have run if it weren’t for the unfortunate attack the day before of the chimpanzee that left a person in critical condition and required that the chimp be shot by police. Anyone who pays attention to politics knows Obama didn’t write the stimulus package–it was outsourced to Pelosi and Reid. Could it be that the cartoon was saying nothing more than that the stimulus package was no better than if it has been written by a monkey, and that’s the end of it? Could it be that those who are leading the protest are motivated more by money than by an altruistic intent to combat racism? After all, Al Sharpton has instigated race-centered-protests-on-demand in exchange for cash before.
Even if the intent is sincere, is outrage of this sort the best way to combat racism? It seems to be quite different from the peaceful marches MLK organized and participated in, and a cartoon seems like the type of thing one would just brush off and ignore. If the intent truly was racist then the protestors have done exactly what racists would want them to do. An in-your-face racist wants attention, and so the ultimate weapon is to ignore them.
If it is truly the case that the cartoonist and editors didn’t have any racist intent, then it’s ironic that they are now being lambasted for being insensitive. As James Taranto of the Wall Street Journal wrote, “Racial ‘sensitivity’ requires not eradicating racial stereotypes but keeping them alive–and not only keeping them alive but remaining acutely conscious of them at all times. Delonas [the cartoonist] and his editors are under attack for seeing ‘chimp’ and failing to think ‘black guy.’” Is that really what so-called leaders of the Black community want? Do they want everyone to know every insult that can possibly be made towards black people, or would they prefer that everyone forget those insults so that they’re not used and not passed down to future generations?
How truly ironic it is that all this happens just as Obama’s Attorney General Eric Holder says that we are “essentially a nation of cowards” when it comes to talking about race. Is it any wonder, when people have to watch every word they say for fear of accidentally saying something that might be interpreted as a racial slur and then being sued or losing their job over it?
I think we have lost sight of what is important in this country. Racism is a fact of the past, for the most part. There are still a few that experience racism: I’m sure, but as a rule the subject of being black stopped being important to most Americans. In my opinion the few that long to perpetuate the feelings of the past are those very same people that get bent when somebody makes a comment, tells a joke, or prints a cartoon.
Every thought, action, or belief does not hold some sinister deeper meaning. It is high time that others begin to recognize that as fact. Everybody will eventually experience some kind of “ism” in their lives, get pissed…. get over it…. and move on.
What ever happened to free speech in this country? At what point did it become OK to fire somebody because you didn’t like what they had to say? And seriously what makes the perceived insult to one person (or group) more important the life and livelihood of another person?
White people are so clueless. How is racism a thing of the past? Have you heard of all of the black unarmed men that have been shot by the police and this has been since Obama’s been in office. Or I don’t know where you live but people are spary painting negative things about President Obama in NC. It is really sad that you guys don’t and refuse to get it. The statment “being black is not important to most Americans” is racist in itself. As far as what the person who started this blog saying that this was all before we were born, everyone knows that the past effects thte future and if you have a community that was purposely targeted for 400 years of course there problems would not be solved in 40 or 50 years. If your grandparents had nothing and the people before them have nothing you cannot expect them to be on the same level as the people who enslaved them to getting wealthy. And I know right now the white person comeback is “my people were immigrants they came to this country with nothing and built what they have” but during the same time your ancestors immigrated my ancestors had lived in this country for years but yet were getting harrassed and lynched in masses. No racial group has been tortured in America like black people. Telling us to forget it is like telling a Jewish person to forget the Holocaust. I think the majority of white people are disrespectfuul and insensitive and smug about the whole thing and it sad!
There will always be racism as long as the NAACP acts like they do. The past is the past as you can see our country wants to move on but the NAACP does not want it too.
I can not stand the fact that there were ever slaves. I feel the people who owned slaves were ignorant. But if you look at it white poor white people were slaves too but we never hear of that. These white people were so poor and they did the same thing black slaves did just to eat and live.
I think the NAACP should educate instead of trying to get everyone fired from their jobs. ANd why was it ok for a white president to be made fun of with a monkey picture????????? Well I can admit that the dumb brainless monkey that got our country in to the mess it is in and someone has to clean up the poop that this monkey left behind.
I do believe that it was a very smart man that said he was tired of black people as well as white people saying I have nothing . I have no rights. I live under the bridge.Mr Cosby had said this! He said anyone who applies him self can be on top of the world but they have to want to! Mr Obama is a very smart man and he applied him self, he diserves to be where he is at today.Mr Obama has a real mess to clean up. i do believe he can do it but it may take another tearm for anyone to clean up this mess our country is in.
As long as the NAACP keeps calling everyone racist then it will never go away. When Black people call their selfs the N word then it is ok but when white people do it ,it is not ok! Why?
When a black person calls the whites names it is ok too. SOme people black and white needs to be educated so NAACP you can help by doing that good dead! Instead of making matters worse for the rest of the world.
The mere absence of the commentor’s experience with racism disqualifies him from understanding the gravity and tone of this cartoon. I am certainly glad you grew up in a seemingly non-racist world, but I grew up in the South, and believe me, racism is alive and well. In fact, it has risen to the surface again and closet-racists cannot contain their views and hatred of Obama just because he is black. The Governor of South Carolina and SC Senator Lindsay Graham have made unbelievably racist comments within the discourse of the stimulus package about Obama. SC Rep Clyburn just called them down for their racist statements recently related to Obama. During McCain’s campaign, his “rallies” in the South were a disgrace in their racist nature. McCain used Palin to make imflammatory and violence-inducing comments towards Obama. Crowds would get so out of control, police had to be present, as invariably groups in these crowds would begin chanting that Obama should be lynched, killed, and ugly racial language was routinely used. McCain knew exactly what he was doing and where to run these racist rallies. He would feign ignorance but it became so bad, Georgia Rep John Lewis (a civil rights worker with Dr Martin Luther King) finally spoke out against McCain (who was his friend) and called him down for intentionally holding racist and violence-inciting rallies and it was totally unacceptable behavior. McCain was embarrassed but then attacked back with ridiculous statements that Obama had put Rep Lewis up to attacking McCain. I am a 50 year old white woman who has watched the South progress. I was a small child when MLK was killed so most of the worst of racism happened before my time. However, I have watched racism in full swing my entire life. It is part of the culture of the South and there are still many, many racists alive and well throughout the South. This cartoon is racist and the cartoonist would have known so. I have no opinion on the Post as a newspaper for I have never read it. However, I do know that what was in that cartoon was overtly racist and nothing else can explain it away. What does a monkey have to do with the stimulus package at all? There is no allegory or connection where a monkey can be a symbol for the economy. Even at that, the monkey was specifically pointed directly to being Obama in the cartoon. The police and black people have a very bad history in the South and there are still places in the South where it is not safe for blacks to be out alone at night for fear of police brutality. Until recently, there was a sign as you entered Forsyth County Georgia that warned “No niggers should be in this country after dark”. This is a suburb county of Atlanta and this sign was there 10 years ago when my husband took me to see it because I would not believe that level of open racism still existed. I saw it for myself and Forsyth County had/has the lowest number of black residents in the whole state of Georgia. There is still deep-rooted racism that has been passed to the next generation. My daughter, who is now 24 and was raised in NC, does not understand why the color of a person’s skin has to do with anything. That’s wonderful. However, there are children of ignorant, uneducated, racist parents who have passed their views onto their children my daugher’s age as well. The South now has many former Northern residents so it is not “politically correct” to use racist terms or say racist things in public, but they are said with full hatred among the like-minded when they are together. You can go anywhere in the rural areas of the South, into small towns, and you would think you had walked back into the 1950s. Blacks live on one side of town and whites on the other and often the separation is a railroad track. This is where the saying “being on the wrong side of the tracks” comes from. Black people defer to white people and say “Yes’m” and No’sir” to whites. There is an invisible line where blacks don’t go or cross. You will hear the “N” word used very openly. I was terrified whenever Obama made visits to cities in the South during the campaign and his security detail would literally triple when he was here. The hatred spewed against him was and IS very real. When he was elected President, I actually thought we might see white riots. The FBI has noted that on the night Obama was elected, white supremicist websites crashed from so many hits. They also report that White Supremist group enrollments have shot up in record numbers. Some white supremicist leaders have been quoted laughing saying “how good Obama has been for business”.
You may live a bubble where racism does not touch you but that does not mean it still does not exist and that there are places in the U.S. where it lives and thrives in everyday life. The NAACP is exactly right to call out the Post for this cartoon. When I saw it, no one had to say anything to me. I was immediately taken aback and it clearly said to me that it was extremely racist in its message. A dark monkey, full of holes by white police officers with guns, with the statement that now SOMEONE (not an animal put a person) would have to be found to write the next stimulus bill. The monkey represented a person and because the stimulus bill was known to be Obama’s bill – that person being referenced was clearly meant to mean Obama. Was it racist – to those who still see and know racism on a daily basis like we do in the South – you bet it is! I found it offensive and another hatred-filled allusion to promoting violence against Obama. I have seen appalling statements and “jokes” on even CNN blogs that call for the death of Obama (which CNN will then quickly remove when people scream about them being in the blog). Have you not seen the HBO documentary that came out in the last couple of weeks where white conservative Americans were asked about Obama as President? You would be shocked at what those people openly said on camera. One man actually cried saying a black man being President was the end of America as a great nation!!! This is the Republican “base” and they continue to egg this hatred of Obama on when among these small-minded people. It is disgusting. McCain ran a disgusting and dishonorable campaign and here in the South, it was unbelievably racist and hate-filled. I saw it and I heard it. The only way you rid racism is to call it out, condemn it, and let everyone know it is not acceptable. There were always be some idiots with small minds but a large NY newspaper should know better and should have never let such a racist and disrespectful and hate-inspiring cartoon be printed. If this cartoon had used any number of known anti-Semitic symbols and words in a cartoon, do you think people would say Jews were being too sensitive?? The NAACP should be outraged. More Americans should be outraged. The Post should apologize and the person who created this cartoon and the person who let it be published should be fired.
When I saw the cartoon the first person I thought of was Nazi Pelosi not Obama. The damn monkey and the stimulus package has been in the news all week so what. Quite frankly the monkey probably would not have attacked the woman had she not altered her appearance, and gave the animal drugs!
I’m tired of racism being shoved down my throat all the time. I’ve never in my life call a black person the ‘n’ word, my parents taught me better. My kid will be taught the same and will not be permitted to listen to rap music where they use ‘n’ word to the point of redundancy.
Racism is dead in America, has been for a while, but some people will not let it go. If they wish to flog themselves so be it but keep it to yourself. I went to school with blacks, I have black friends. I don’t need someone telling me they think “deep down I have an issue with black people” because my rsponse will be go f**k yourself.
This whole situation is ridiculous and I hope the paper refuses to fire the cartoonist. Freedom of expression is still legal in this country, at least for now.
Did black people go see King Kong? Yes they did. Did they think Peter Jackson used King Kong as a giant black effigy? No they didn’t. Did they call Peter Jackson a racist? No.
So WTF is the problem!!
UNBELIEVABLE! First of all, I am a minority (Vietnamese American, first generation immigrant who came to the U.S. with nothing but the clothes I was wearing -1985). So don’t give me the bull about how low income black (or any color) folks are somehow so “disadvantaged” and “racially oppressed” that they have no chance to advance their lives for the better.
When I first saw the cartoon in the NYP, I didn’t like it. But it was because of the parody choice (using the story of the chimp-gone-wild from the day before). Racism never crossed my mind. Why? Because the text clearly states “They’ll have to find someone else to WRITE [let me repeat that, "WRITE"] the next stimulus bill.”
Anyone who managed to pass basic grammar in grade school should come to the next question when analyzing this cartoon, “So who wrote the stimulus bill?” -President Obama? Unless signing a document has suddenly become the equivalent of authoring the document, then it is a clear black-and-white-no-gray-whatsoever “NO!!”
Last I heard, the authoring of the bill included many hands in both the House AND the Senate (pork and all), therefore, my feeble mind concludes that the Chimpanzee in the cartoon can ONLY be a personification of Congress as a single entity.
Where in the heck did this Obama-must-die conclusion come from??? I’ve experienced much racism during my time here in America, and have no tolerance whatsoever for it. What I have learned, is that the best way to fight racism is to better yourself. Better yourself to the point where the people who once called you “Chink” and “Gook” are now calling you “Boss” or more importantly “Friend”.
There are many more good people in this great nation than bad. The answer to racism is NOT to sit around with a Race Card stuffed in your shirt pocket, ready to wave at anything that remotely resembles a racial slight.
All the NAACP is doing is hurting the cause. Boycott the NYP?? How about boycott the NAACP! The nerve these people have to call for the lynching of this poor cartoonist. I think racism has just gone 180.
I’m familiar with the story of the abysmally crude cartoon, but I certainly wasn’t familiar with the excuse the cartoonist and his editor gave for the theme of the cartoon — the grisly attack on the poor woman who was trying to help the owner of the chimpanzee. Unfortunately I hadn’t gotten around to reading THAT news item on CNN.com.
Nevertheless, I wouldn’t have been as offended if the cartoonist hadn’t 1) portrayed the chimpanzee/stimulus author as shot dead; 2) left out the references IN the cartoon to the original story of the chimpanzee, i.e., the mauled woman or the animal’s owner.
As for some cartoon apologists who keep whining about “well, what about all the cartoons that portrayed George Bush as a monkey, that’s the same thing!!!” — well, those cartoons didn’t portray him DEAD, did they?
Besides, I always thought George Bush looked more like a graying Alfred E. Neuman.
I don’t care if either the cartoonist or the editor is fired, but I think something as crude and thoughtless and possibly violence-provoking should remain on their resume for the rest of their professional lives. And it probably will, with the proliferation of news on the Internet, and the ease of searching out facts through search engines.
Quite apart from the racist issue, which i concur is disgusting… Why would anyone think the killing of this chimpanzee is a suitable subject for humor. The animals death and the injuries to the people are all tragic. Another reason for disgust. Fire this cartoonist AND his editor!
What frustrates me about some white Americans is the choice to be ignorant and insensitive towards racial bigotry. In fact we have become so insensitive towards so many wrongs in this country that it is considered ok and normal to do these type of things. Sorry – but when a people are being shot down like dogs in the back by police officers, judicially discriminated against, raped and entrapped, and just constantly harassed by segments of the police, WE WILL NOT simply get over it and move on. But we will as always persevere. We don’t need anyone’s handouts or sympathy but rather your understanding and sensitivity.
While you choose to ignore the disrespect that comes with the Post’s article, you indirectly are saying it’s ok – this level of disrespect is normal and acceptable even if it is offensive to some, as long as it’s not offensive to you or your love ones than it’s ok. Stop referencing pieces of information about Dr. King. DO SOMETHING LIKE THE MANY WHITE PEOPLE WHO CHOSE TO MARCH WITH KING, AND HOSEA WILLIAMS. DID YOU EVEN KNOW SOME OF YOUR PEOPLE DIED MARCHING ALONG WITH MINE. THEY DIDN’T JUST GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON and they didn’t just ignore racists, they died fighting. THEY ALREADY NEW WHAT OBAMA HAS BEEN SAYING TO US – WE ARE ONE PEOPLE – ONE COUNTRY. All of those who marched of all nationalities were the bravest and best of our country. It wasn’t just King! Instead of pleading ignorance, you should consider honoring the memory of those whites that died fighting against injustice, hate, bigotry by doing something. I will never forget them. Racism will only go away when all people of all colors fight against it.
Several African American veterans of my family have fought and died for this country, some surviving only to come back from wars to be discriminated against. Ignoring racism shames the many soldiers of all colors who defend our right of freedom of speech. It is shameful for them to see this kind of crap (in the Post) still in this modern day age. It dishonor’s them!
Most have been ignoring racism for decades. It obviously is not working as a viable solution. Racist don’t just want attention- they want power. Most idolize Hitler, a man who murdered blacks, Jewish whites, Italians, and others. Do the research. I wonder how it might have been if the world simply chose to ignore Hitler’s gas chambers. I wonder what the response might have been if the Post had drawn a cartoon today based on the Jewish holocaust?
If you are not part of the solution than you are probably part of the problem!
Good Job NGUYEN! You have said it all here. IF you apply your self you can be all you want to be. Good job to you and I’m sure you make a difference in anyones life!
I also think that the article could have been a legitimate and honest mistake. As a white male of above average intellect, I too had never heard of the stereotype of African American’s being linked to a racial slur. Now, for better or for worse, those two items are forever linked in my mind at least on a subconscious level. A stereotype that may have been outdated and no longer being used is now front and center and now known by millions of people who have never heard that before. The group now responsible for spreading this stereotype is not a group with ill intentions but the NAACP. By calling this to attention at such a level that they have, they have achieved the opposite affect and insured that this stereotype will now be in use for a long time to come. I believe this to be the case because we are now living in an age where a man is judged by the content of his character and not by his skin color. After all, we did elect an African American president. He was elected not solely from African American voters, but from voters across a wide ethnic divide. I didn’t vote for him based on his political policies, but that was the sole reason I didn’t vote for him. I wanted to though as I knew what a historic moment it would be and I was very impressed with his speech at The Democratic National Convention in 2004.
Furthermore, how can any group make any positive strides when they are expending vast amount of resources and energy being bitter, angry and resentful. Dwelling in those emotions consumes you as a human being and doesn’t allow you to do anything positive or productive.
I am tired of being held accountable for people’s actions that have long since passed away. I believe that Caucasian American’s have sacrificed more for equality then African American’s are willing to give people credit for. After all, could there ever be an organization called NAAWP (National Association for the Advancement of White People)? Or could we ever have a White Caucus such as the Black Caucus that exists? Could we have scholarships awarded based on the color of our skin? If any one of those things were tried, there is no way that it would fly (Although the scholarship thing would be nice as I find myself now in $35,000 in student loan debt). I think that the tides have now turned. Those that claim that they are being to be discriminated against are actually becoming the discriminators.
It is also time to realize that it is the sum total of our decisions and actions that are responsible for where we are at or where we want to be. African American’s make up 12% of the population but are responsible for 43% of the incarcerations according to the Human Rights Watch website below. They are also responsible for 35% of high school dropouts according to KidsData website. So, before you blame me for your failure to accomplish what you want due to your ethnicity, please look at the sum total of your actions. If you haven’t finished high school and have been incarcerated multiple times, and haven’t attempted to go to college, don’t come crying to me that the your situation is due to Whitey holding you down.
http://www.kidsdata.org/topictables.jsp?csid=0&t=30&i=2&ra=3_132&sort=a&va=null&vb=a&yr_a=1&yr_b=13&o_id=0&
http://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/
Oh, this is priceless. In the mid 1980’s, at the same time as Nguyen brags about coming to the U.S., Richard Pryor did a skit called the “New Niggers.” In that, he talked about the racism against the Vietnamese immigrants, but that some of these immigrants soon learned to be embraced by their new country by taking classes in racism, practicing how to say “Niggah Niggah Niggah!!!” Interesting how Nguyen can dictate to others what is acceptable to be offensive to them. Boycott NAACP? “LYNCHING” the poor cartoonist?? Oh, my. What a word choice. I think Mr Nguyen studied well, keeping his own personal brand of bigotry alive for all to see. Lesson well learned! Bravo.
S. Jones:
Black people shot down like dogs by police? Every single day I read the news and there is not ONE SINGLE DAY that goes by without me reading about some black man or youth shot down by another black man. WTF! Drive bys, random shootings, innocent black children shot dead. And you whine about cops shooting blacks down like dogs. I’ll be the first to admit we do have a few bad cops. But the reality is blacks kill blacks EVERY freaking day. By comparison I seldom read about cops shooting blacks in the news. And I read my news off the net from many cities across the U.S. not just my city.
I have the ultimate in respect for our black men and women having served and currently serving our country. But what blacks do to each other is making freed slaves and those having died during the civil rights era spin in their graves. I can’t imagine how frustrated and disappointed MLK or Malcolm X would be if they were alive today. It’s really a shame.
Quit pointing the finger at whites and clean out your own yard before whining to everyone else.
One more point, I’m a history major. Hitler killed far more Jewish people than black, his racism was directed toward this group – Jews.
You are sadly mistake, racists do not idolize Hitler. Honestly if you asked the average person they only know Hitler killed Jews. They don’t know about the murder of the mentally handicapped, gays, and other walks of life.
Racism abounds in the black community also. You want to talk racism, talk to old Jesse Jackson about Hymietown and why he wanted to “cut off Obama’s d**k”. Gotta love an open mike. Look at your own “leaders. What exactly do they stand for? Do you honestly think they care about the common man? No they don’t. They care about money, political gain and themselves.
Yall white people once again are so ignorant. All i am going to respond to is this thing about black on black crime. Okay first of all I’m not from “the hood” but I sure have been exposed to alot of people that are and even more of the children with my career. If a grown white person had to deal with some of the issues these young people are supposed to deal with you all would not be killing each other, you would be killing yourself. Granted it is a problem but it is a problem caused by racism and oppression. In the past 25 years black on black crime has been off the hook but that stems from the fact that no matter what the generations before tried to do right they were beat down and held back. There were a plentitude of good black families, black people trying to get some where and get something once upon a time in America but when it was seen that black people were doing well maybe even getting ahead things were done to curb that like flooding the black community with drugs. This happened in the 60′s and tne 80′s. Must have seeemed like a good idea then but look at the mess it has caused. I am in no way defending black on black crime I think it is pitiful but I do know that if you don’t give a damn about your own life, you definitely don’t care about taking someone elses. So why would anyone oppress a group of people to make it appear that there life does not matter then act surprised by the results. Come on cause and effect people, i think that was taught in the second grade too. Also most black on black crime happens in inner city’s. Did you guys know that before they built all of those high rise projects in most of the urban area’s they tested the structures out on rats to see how they would relate in living conditions like that being so close in quaters and do you know what happened…… They started killing and eating each other. The point is that alot of effort has been put into keeping black people oppressed I personally think the effects are wearing down and getting better but nothing goes with out consequence. I think Pres Obama will help in the healing one because of the higher standard and role model he is but two because he understands these problem. I know he understands this because instead of taking the many high paying jobs he could have he came to the inner city to help with the cause. Black people like Pres Obama needs to take a note from him instead of looking down on less fortunate black people. I have my Master, my mother and father graduated from college, my grandparents even graduated from college when they were still refered to as Negro Training schools and Teachers College. I don’t think this makes me any better than anyone I just think it makes me lucky I came from black people who were blessed with opputunity when others were not. On that same token I have a friend, his grand father was a sharecropper so he ended up with land not alot of education, his grandmother died after giving child birth (probably from not being able to have sufficient care). His grandfather raised all of his kids with the help of the oldest daughter.During the 60′s the oldest duaghter got strung on heroin The middle daughter is my friends mother. She started using crack in the early 80′s she also had a boyfriend that was extremely abusive. She ran off with that boyfriend across the country when my friend was 5 and he did not see her again til he was 16. There for due to this he had to deal with abuse of every kind, worthlessness and poverty. He would go to school and act out and he would be called dumb and kicked out of class, yet he was very intelligent. So he had shady teenage years and early adulthood but that is because he had to deal with grown people issues since he was 5. This is not a special story or one for pity cause my friend is doing good now married with children. This is just a everyday story from the hood.
I also think that the article could have been a legitimate and honest mistake. As a white male of above average intellect, I too had never heard of the stereotype of African American’s being linked to a racial slur. Now, for better or for worse, those two items are forever linked in my mind at least on a subconscious level. A stereotype that may have been outdated and no longer being used is now front and center and now known by millions of people who have never heard that before. The group now responsible for spreading this stereotype is not a group with ill intentions but the NAACP. By calling this to attention at such a level that they have, they have achieved the opposite affect and insured that this stereotype will now be in use for a long time to come. I believe this to be the case because we are now living in an age where a man is judged by the content of his character and not by his skin color. After all, we did elect an African American president. He was elected not solely from African American voters, but from voters across a wide ethnic divide. I didn’t vote for him based on his political policies, but that was the sole reason I didn’t vote for him. I wanted to though as I knew what a historic moment it would be and I was very impressed with his speech at The Democratic National Convention in 2004.
Furthermore, how can any group make any positive strides when they are expending vast amount of resources and energy being bitter, angry and resentful. Dwelling in those emotions consumes you as a human being and doesn’t allow you to do anything positive or productive.
I am tired of being held accountable for people’s actions that have long since passed away. I believe that Caucasian American’s have sacrificed more for equality then African American’s are willing to give people credit for. After all, could there ever be an organization called NAAWP (National Association for the Advancement of White People)? Or could we ever have a White Caucus such as the Black Caucus that exists? Could we have scholarships awarded based on the color of our skin? If any one of those things were tried, there is no way that it would fly (Although the scholarship thing would be nice as I find myself now in $35,000 in student loan debt). I think that the tides have now turned. Those that claim that they are being to be discriminated against are actually becoming the discriminators.
It is also time to realize that it is the sum total of our decisions and actions that are responsible for where we are at or where we want to be. African American’s make up 12% of the population but are responsible for 43% of the incarcerations according to the Human Rights Watch website below. They are also responsible for 35% of high school dropouts according to KidsData website. So, before you blame me for your failure to accomplish what you want due to your ethnicity, please look at the sum total of your actions. If you haven’t finished high school and have been incarcerated multiple times, and haven’t attempted to go to college, don’t come crying to me that the your situation is due to Whitey holding you down.
Great. Another conspiracy theorist. The use of drugs in this country is quite old. In modern history (circa 1920′s) artists, musicians etc. used drugs. The sixties saw a free-for-all, everything is cool dude attitude from the same people you elected into office! Cocaine started with wealthy white people in the late 70′s then trickled down to other social groups, not the other way around. I’m sorry for your friend. But the mother made a choice. She chose her life. She chose to leave her child. I didn’t grow up in a lily white neighborhood, I’ve seen what you’ve described myself. But I also saw parents choose not to get strung out and be good parents. Oh yeah they’re not the ones getting attention – decent people. Only pos jerks who blame everyone else for their woes.
People make choices. In 2009 your choices are wide open, in 1980 choices were wide open. I’m sick of everyone blaming SOMETHING for their poor choices. “Sorry I didn’t mean to kill that person but I was strung out on drugs” “Oh I didn’t mean to rape that woman I was drunk” and so on. Take some f**king responsibility for your lives. It’s too easy too blame everything else and many people milk it for all its worth. But why not in an enabling society. Accepting responsibility for your screw-ups and good things – what is so difficult about this? It’s a simple concept!
*My first paragraph was for Nicole.
2nd paragraph is everyone – regardless of race. Figure I better clarify this. Some idiot will try to twist what I wrote into a race issue. Go figure.
NICOLE took the words right out of my mouth.
Predictable – it’s the ever classic “Don’t blame me because I’m white” line – WOW. This is the problem of ignorance. Brace yourselves for this. NO ONE IS PERSONALLY BLAMING YOU FOR SLAVERY, DRUGS AND BLACK ON BLACK CRIME! We know that’s the American government’s fault for enabling these things. There – feel better now.
I’M BLAMING YOU FOR YOUR ACCEPTANCE AND LACK OF SENSIVITY TOWARDS WHAT WE CONSIDER OFFENSIVE AND DISRESPECTFUL! I love all people in general, but I’m NOT ignorant and so insensitive to the point that I could ever walk into a Jewish synagogue and shout loudly “Hitler”. I wouldn’t do that because while black people certainly were not responsible for what Hitler did – I respect the fact that it may be offensive and insensitive. Think I could get away with that whole “Freedom of Speech” argument if I did that? I think not! Sensitivity has nothing to do with stats, black on black crime, drugs, Richard Pryor, or slavery. This is me respecting a people and an ugly history. It’s just that freakin simple! Don’t even try to change the topic or “Hannity ORielly” me. Stay on point!
Ignorance begets Ignorance. Until you stop choosing to ignore the issue and address it with other “not so accepting to others” racist whites, there will always be a need for the NAACP to address it for you. If you’re tired of them and Sharpton, than help them dig deeper into the problem to change it. And when you ask why we as blacks can’t get over it, please be sure to ask those that perpetrate bigotry why they can’t seem to get over us.
P.S I just bought a nice 5 bedroom house in a nice quiet community. I’m marrying my second wife. I have a daughter on the honor role at her school. I’m educated and make nearly a six figure salary. My best friend of 25 years is a New York City Police officer. We both grew up in one of the worse projects in New York City (Edgemere projects). My other good close friend happens to be gay white and jewish. We don’t always agree on everything, but ya know what – I respect him enough to not be insensitive towards his lifestyle or history and he respects me for his own reasons. I haven’t always liked police officer’s either, but the irony of life is that my best friend turned out to become one. The point is we have got to start dealing with racism and hate in an intelligent, sensitive and respectful manor, while there are still intelligent and respectful people left in this country.
“Predictable – it’s the ever classic “Don’t blame me because I’m white” line – WOW. This is the problem of ignorance. Brace yourselves for this. NO ONE IS PERSONALLY BLAMING YOU FOR SLAVERY, DRUGS AND BLACK ON BLACK CRIME! We know that’s the American government’s fault for enabling these things. There – feel better now.
I’M BLAMING YOU FOR YOUR ACCEPTANCE AND LACK OF SENSIVITY TOWARDS WHAT WE CONSIDER OFFENSIVE AND DISRESPECTFUL!”
Um, excuse me: talk about predictable. It’s always the case of I didn’t get it because I’m black, I don’t get the same…fill in the blank… as everybody else. Are you kidding me? What universe do you live in? African Americans (and by the way at what point do you become simply an American?) feel they have the right to go stomping up and down screaming about racism when they actively participate in the act themselves. I am sorry to break the horrible news to you, but you are NOT the only “color” of people that have been held down. And quite frankly: Sir I couldn’t care less what you find offensive. –There I feel better now.
Now for a brief comparison:
The Irish were hated in this country during the civil war era, the Japanese were put in freaking CONCENTRATION CAMPS during WWII, the Italians were pigeon holed, and do we even need to mention the Mexicans today? (I know I have left out some obvious other groups…)
Let me give you an example of just how “open minded” I have found the African-Americans to be: I was working at a restaurant a while back and was serving an older black couple. They put their order in and when it came out they had tons to complain about. They sent their food back 3 times, and after the last delivery the “gentleman” took the liberty to tell me the poor quality of the food was due to the fact that a Mexican made it… and that we should just ship them all back to their country. If I had said that to him I would have been fired. What makes it OK for this man to so openly share his bigotry with me but the opposite is not true.
I think this cartoon is an EXCELLENT example of what is wrong with race relations in this country. It is an ample opportunity for me to point that your political leaders, film stars, athletes, musicians, and cultural superstars all aim to perpetuate the stereotype that you seem to fight against to powerfully. Seems to me that it would be wiser all together to completely revamp your image by removing all the HATE from your everyday lives. Perhaps sir, it is the pot calling the kettle.
The Rev. Al Sharpton has emerged over the past decade as New York City’s most prominent civil rights leader. Government records indicate that Sharpton and his business entities owe nearly $1.5 million in overdue taxes and penalties.
Point in case.
I’m not a republican, the Hannity remarks…I expect more from you. I have never watched Hannity, Rush or any of those other idiots. By the same token I don’t let liberal media dicatate to me what I should think or how I should feel. I’m a moderate. To me there shouldn’t be a Dem v. Repub mentality. Democrats are the ones that make me really nauseous, they tout education as their pet project but then cut over 2 billion dollars for education out of the stimulus package. Education should be a priority with a strong shift toward inner city schools. That’s why when I saw the cartoon I thought of Nazi Pelosi, one of the key writers of the package. Sorry got on a rant there….
I have to play devils advocate here so bear with me. Sensitivity – how about blacks showing some sensitivity and quit calling each other ugly names? You don’t find rap music with it’s use of the word ni@@a offensive? The effect is has on young people and their self esteem? How do you, as a race, expect others to be sensitive to what you find offensive if you can’t be sensitive to yourselves and they’re not sure what exactly you find offensive? I cringe everytime I hear a rap song I despise the ‘n’ word. Part of the problem for the general populace, especially young people, is they can’t figure out why if you hate it so much why condone those that use it, buy their albums and, revel in their BS? The mode of dress, the ‘n’ word, the glorification of the ‘gangsta life’? If it’s all good, how the hell is anyone supposed to know what you find offensive? Finally, what message does it send when artists like Bill Cosby, Russell Simmons, or intellectuals like Cornel West come out against the excessive use of the ‘n’ or the glorification of the ‘lifestyle’ then are lambasted as Uncle Toms? When people, even those of like ethnicity, try to dig deeper they are shut down by the very people they are trying to help.
You see what I’m getting at? People are a generalizing bunch. They take what they see and hear at face value, without thinking any deeper. You are an intelligent man, you know what I’m talking about. Perception is a powerful tool, you know this. Regardless of intellectual capacity there are bigots everywhere. The ones that will tell you to your face and the ones that are worse – smile in your face and do it behind your back. IQ and educational level is irrelevant. I’ve met some backwoods people in my travels, nicest people in the world – would never call a black a nasty name, help out their black neighbors, invite those same people into their home for supper and a ball game and would give them a kidney if they needed it and vice versa. I’ve also met highly educated people, extremely crass, make cracks and would not throw a glass of water on you if you were on fire.
I don’t allow BS talk about black, gay, Jewish, Hispanic or any other culture of people around me. If your beliefs are such and you can’t be dissuaded by reason you are not welcome around me. I have given the boot to more than one person from my house. I don’t bury my head and listen to that crap and not say anything. It is not my nature.
My kid will not participate in such disgusting, vile behavior and will be taught to respect others just as I was. I will also teach my kid to have some common sense. There will be no primate-black connection for my kid.
ROFL – Dude you and I are actually on the same page. While there are still intelligent people left (not necessiarily IQ), and it seems there are damn few around, everyone has to do something. I travel a lot in my job and deal with all kinds of people. What really freaking trips me out is the everyday Joe or Jane doesn’t seem to have a problem with blacks or racism. It’s people in positions of power, highly educated like me, people that are supposed to know better, that exhibit the most racist behavior I encounter. People making the false assumption, since I’m from the south, that it’s okay to make tasteless, crude cracks.
I like debate and have enjoyed our debate. I’ll enjoy your rebuttal if you make it back here.
I hope your police friend stays safe, cops need all the good thoughts they can get. And your Jewish friend too, anti-semitism is on the rise again – sadly enough. And I wish you the very best in your upcoming nuptials. May you and your wife have a long happy life together.
Allison – Thank you. Excellent point, one I completely neglected to cover. There is racism in all walks of life. No one is immune.
Peace.
I think we can all agree that nobody’s opinion is going to change as a result of anything that is said on here. Ideally, it would be nice to find common ground so we can move together constructively into the future and make all of this racial stuff a thing of the past. And you’re right, African American’s are American’s, I meant no disrespect. I merely wanted to talk about points that dealt with that demographic of the population to make a point. I personally have no problem being identified as Caucasian for demographic purposes. Please educate me on the proper term to describe a demographic that does not bring offense. It has never been a point of mine to offend anyone in regards to this matter. However, I do not know of the proper term that won’t bring offense. By talking about properties of group it does not automatically mean exclusion from another group. For example, if we were to talk about my Caucasian properties as they relate to who I am, it does not automatically exclude me from the male category.
I just don’t want to live in a society where we become fearful of printing anything due to the fact that a group of folks might take offense to it. Say I started to take offense to pictures of pennies because I was identified as a penny pincher. Should no one now be allowed to use images of pennies? What if nerd’s got together and decided that the candy nerd’s was now offensive because it portrays them as being fruity which can be associated with homosexuality? I’m sure I could go on and on and eventually identify every single object with a group that may take offense to it. When are we allowed as a society to draw the line and say something along the lines of “I’m sorry that the image of xyz offended your group. However, as a society we are not going to censor the use of that image.” Each human being within them has the power to grant an image power or not. As easily as an image can be associated with certain references, we can dereference that association as well. No human being at birth is wired to associate an image of a chimpanzee with African American’s. Some have made that association as it was taught from others. Others have never made that association. Since this is a learned and taught association, it can also be unlearned and unassociated on an individual basis as well.
If the cartoonist’s actions were racially motivated then I agree, he should be reprimanded. If it was an honest and a legitimate mistake he should be given the opportunity to learn from the mistake and move on. Every one makes mistakes. I’ll be the first to admit that I have made dozens of them, mostly on a small scale. I would never intentionally offend anyone and if I had, I’d feel mortified and embarrassed. If I had accidently done that, I’d feel horrible about the incident and publicly apologize. I’m not sure what forcing me to resign at that point would accomplish. In these uncertain times, it might be a while before I found meaningful employment again. This could mean that I’d lose my car, my home, my entire life savings. If it truly was an honest legitimate mistake, isn’t that too high of a price to demand?
Lastly, as a previous author alluded to, we are all American’s. At what point can we let the past be the past, acknowledge what happened, learn from it and move on. What needs to happen for us to all move forward as American’s? What conditions need to be present to be satisfied that the overwhelming majority of American’s are no longer as racially divided as we once were? If the number is 100%, I think that goal will never be reached as there will always be a few bad apples from both parties. What generation will be able to stop paying for the sins of our ancestors? Will it be my kids? My kid’s kids? Or will this be an issue that endures until the last individual in America passes away?
I do not understand why Black people call were they live the hood! I worked in an almost all black area for 23 years and grew up right down the street in the same area. I had a lot of black friends and I still do but my black friends and I we never called it the hood. Back in the 60′s during the riots our streets were blocked off we could not get to our houses my boyfriend and I after being out to dinner. National guard and police had the streets blocked off every where.We went to a school that was about 80% Black. It did not bother us . Our Best friend was Black and infact he was the best man in our wedding. Oh geez I can not believe that black people call where they live the hood please would someone explain that too me. Because if I was to say that I would probably be bashed really bad. I am not racist and will never be.But i will never understand why a black person can say something about their selfs but a white person can not say the same thing.Us white people can be called names by blacks and why is that? I have heard the word HONKEY so many times it makes me sick but if I was to say a name back I’d be a racist. I just do not understand why we all can not just get along. But I think the word racist is fair to say of blacks as well as whites. I think in todays times every race there are racist and it needs to stop! But if people keep crying poor me then it will never stop.
Well said Mo and Mike. You have the mindsets that can help the situation.
I am in total agreement with Mo and Mike on the music and use of the N word. But did deeper. Who owns those sports teams, recording, movie companies etc., and Allison who buys the records that keep those artists coming back for more idiocy on display. Ignorance and absurdness and is viable business in this country. Mo and Mike you unfortunately you won’t see much of Cornell West of Bill Cosby because unless there is controversy that’s not news worthy. Guess what it’s the same with rap music. There are artist I’ve heard that are much more talented and intelligent with their music than what mass media exposes you to, but their music won’t see the light of day. You don’t like some of that garbage music, can’t blame you – enlighten folks to stop the demand and the corporations will stop the supply. This is not to sound racist, but the majority of sales of that type of entertainment are from white suburbia. Am I blaming white suburbia for the individuals promoting ignorance. Nope. But dig deeper. Those rap artist don’t just say poof and out of their backside comes distribution, videos, interviews, million dollar contracts, and stardom. That Gangsta Gangsta attitude is boxed, promoted, enabled and encouraged in most cases by the record companies. Intelligent music is repressed. Don’t like it. Get your NAACP on. Boycott the music and entertainment companies. Do Something about this! Al Sharpton himself has addressed this on numerous occasions by going up against some of those companies? But the media never publicized that. His taxes are irrelevant in this conversation.
You asked an intelligent question when you asked “Part of the problem for the general populace, especially young people, is they can’t figure out why if you hate it so much why condone those that use it, buy their albums and, revel in their BS? The mode of dress, the ‘n’ word, the glorification of the ‘gangsta life’? If it’s all good, how the hell is anyone supposed to know what you find offensive?” It’s not by any stretch of the imagination all good. The need for attention, popularity, self centered, misguided pride and ignorance in this case of the issue of property and lack of better up bringing. Being poor makes people think totally different, wreckless and irresponsibly no matter what their color may be. There is a huge segment of the black community that has been sick and tired of this kind of mentality in our people – for a long time. But getting back to the point – please do not generalize an entire race based on the imagery the entertainment industry shoves down our throats. CNN FOX nor MSNBC never covered the recent boycott of BET by blacks. They don’t want to show too many African Americans with normal average American family lives. This is not the image that fascinates America or the world for that matter. Nevertheless to answer the question, we are doing something about these images. But it makes it even harder to see something like what the Post portrayed. I am HUMAN first and foremost. I’m not the spokes person for all black people but guys you deserve to know this. As a progressive minded person – that level of insensitivity just makes us feel like wow – we’ve come so far and yet some seem to be regressing backwards to even have the audacity to do something like this.
You are all three absolutely right in stating there is racism is all walks of life. But there is no where written that you should simply accept what is wrong and sweep it under the Freedom of Speech rug. The post is not a people of walk of life, it is corporate entity.
My point is we are going to have to do something to change this mindset that holds us all back as Americans and even as Human Beings. So sinse there is no rule book or guide lines on what might offend a culture of people, the only thing left to do is to learn to understand more about each other than what the colorful pictures on the big TV tell us about each other. Observe and engage. Had a bad experience, don’t give up – keep trying and teach the young as you are doing what’s right and what’s wrong. That is a very important ingredient towards doing something towards change. Learn and care what offends a people – less there will more of the same.
This type of depiction when it is defended – makes me feel like no matter how much we accomplish or how far we have come – there will always be a few who see us as unintelligent, not really human monkeys. It is hurtful and insensitive whether it’s from a segment of our people or yours. This is why I’m Human first.
We don’t have to be nervous about every little thing, but we do need to learn about each other if we expect to know what is considered respectful and disrespectful. I invite intelligent conversation.
Mo,
I know Hitler’s main concentration for his hate were the Jewish. Come on. I also agree, Caucasians have had many targets not just Black people. My point is in America over 2 million people died in the Middle Passage while the slaves were brought over here. During slavery another estimated 4 million died as a direct result so that is 6 million people the same number approximately as during the Holocaust. So when you are told to “get over it” or even worse, like ALLISON said above,”I, don’t care what is offensive to you ,sir” it is taken as insensitive and disrespectful. Please dont confuse me with not letting go of the past because the only reason I has to spell it out is because MO acted like I did not know anything about Hitler. I definitely don’t blame all white people for anything in the black community or for other peoples racism. As you all always say, I have white friends (lol) and I can have mature conversations about anything including race with all of them. They never seemed to take a smug attitude about it. I just find it inexcusable that ignorance is the only excuse that the NY Post has for printing something that brought up these old wounds. To them and the gentlemen above, ignorance is no excuse is what I have always been told. You should know that, it is a part of American history. As ugly as it is that is part of what this country was built on. Here is some more history….. The Oscars came on tonight honoring American art, before the late 19th century art in America was based on “Old World” standards – whatever they were doing in Europe or either they studied in Europe and brought what they learned here. America’s first art form in music and film were Minstrel Shows. George Gershwin who is considered to be one the first American composer’s performed in blackface. Images like that dead monkey were used in the earliest cartoons and film to degrade back people. Ignorance is no excuse, the people at thr Post and other should know there American history. Notice I did not say African-American History, are you guys happy.
PS ALLISON
That’s why you see all of these negative images of black people on TV. That’s what it has been from the beginning we could only portray certain roles. It’s gotten a little better but most of it is a modern day Minstrel Show. I know I come of a little harsh sometimes but I really wish you all would look this up because you would trip off of the similarities to today, even though it was way back then. The point is if you are not 1 of about 3 black people you don’t control what is on TV and I don’t even blame the white execitves because if it isn’t broke the why try to fix it. I can’t blame the black people either because if your dream has always been to be on TV but the only oppurtunity you have is a video ho or some modern day coon there are people who are going to take it.
Pay close attention to what folks like Nicole and Beverly from Charlotte NC and myself are saying. We are trying to tell you what the problem is and why we can just get over it. We have been saying the say thing all along.
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t ask me when do we become Americans,and then tell me you don’t care what I find offensive. This is the problem of ignorance.
Pay close attention to what folks like Nicole and Beverly from Charlotte NC and myself are saying. We are trying to tell you what the problem is and why we can’t just get over it. We have been saying the say thing all along.
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t ask me when do we become Americans,and then tell me you don’t care what I find offensive. This is the problem of ignorance.
I’d like to comment on Allison’s line:
“We know that’s the American government’s fault for enabling these things. There – feel better now.”
The government is not the cause of or the solution to all of our problems. Furthermore, the government is you me and all of us. I think that it is absurd to think that it is the Government’s job to stamp out “black on black crime”, as you call it. Secondly, I think if they tried they would be met with so much criticism from the African American community and the NAACP would be all over it worse then they are over the New York Post cartoon. The reason for this, is that everyone they arrested or targeted as part of perpetrating “black on black” crime would pull the race card and state they are only being arrested and targeted because they are black. Furthermore, I have watched the History channel and seen examples where the government tries to resolve the problem, but are met with so much violence that they are either significntly slowed by their efforts or are forced to abandon the cause. How much resources are you expecting us to spend on this cause? How many police officer’s are going to need to lay down their lives in this effort? At some point, there comes the point of diminishing returns where the benefits received are way in excess of the price paid. I think that is why there exists today a philosophy of containment rather than aggressively going after the source of the problem. So, you can’t have it both ways stating the government should take action and then criticize them when they do.
I also believe that we are responsible for our own actions and can not control the actions of others. Therefore, the only way for change to occur is from within the African American community. Once enough members of the African American community decide that a 43% incarceration rate, a 35% drop out rate and that “black on black” crimes are no longer acceptable and work to change the paradigms that cause those behaviors and attitudes will the problem ever be resolved.
Mike dig deeper. Do the research on the flood of drugs into African American community during the 60′s through the 80′s. See what effects it has had over the last few decades. One of those effects happens to be black on black crime. Let go of your idealogy for a second and re-read what Nicole’s post says. I never stated the government should take action and do something about Black on Black crime. Forget histroy channel man, “walk with me” for a second.
Please explain your last paragragh. Are you saying that racism, insensitvity, and bigotry will all go away when black people do what you suggest in that paragraph? Because if that is the case it isn’t working. As Beverly mentioned – the only way you rid racism is to call it out, condemn it, and let everyone know it is not acceptable.
I agree with a lot of your points. Many black people have already decided that black on black crime, the incarceration rate and drop out rate is not acceptable. This is why my kid is on the honor role Mike along with several other students. This is why even though I’m successful I still mentor inner city poverty stricken kids, and volunteer with a homeless non profit. I am one to be a living example for the kids I deal with not for a pay on the back but because the change comes easier in children. Change and help them and you help the future. There are a lot of black people out there that care enough to change things. But that will never convince the entertainment and media to respect me more. We are not highlighted in the media because there is no money or ratings in that for the media. This is why you don’t see much of what I’m talking about. They’d rather show something more entertaining even if it offends.
Everyone here is so passionate and made excellent posts, Mike, Nicole, S.Jones and everyone else. Nicole – no worries – it’s our passion that makes us come off kind of rough sometimes.
S.Johnson – believe me I know it’s packaging. The same people that try to make all blacks seem like ganstas are the same people that sexualize little girls. I recently relocated to the city I currently reside and they must have a noise ordinance here. The reason I mentioned the music is the city I lived in previously all I heard out of cars was rap, and I had a 50/50 chance of seeing a white kid or a black kid listening to it. It seemed a disproportionate amount of young people, both black and white listen to rap. This is discouraging, I don’t want white kids viewing blacks in this manner nor do I want black kids to feel this is all they have, lack self respect or idolize the life. I know big business wants to propagate this image, I’m just not sure how everyone goes about changing the consumer mentality other than education. Believe me I realize many blacks do not like the rap genre, my blacks friends and I prefer Ben Harper, among others, better music. I do my part personally, by not purchsing, and have drafted a letter to the NAACP, Sharpton and Jackson. I’m sure I’ll think of a few more. I’m so jaded when it comes to politicians like Sharpton, and others, I feel it’s a useless gesture to send the letters. I will, but I seriously doubt they’ll pay attention. Other than this I don’t know really what else to do, besides educate my kid.
Unfortunately over generaliztion is one of the disgraces of this country. The same mentality that paints blacks as heathens, little girls as sex objects, paints southern whites as racist KKK members, conservatives as idiots and liberals as socialists or Nazis. I hope, even though it seems I’m wrong, most people are moderates. There is a middle ground for our issues.
I don’t in any way want blacks to feel bad about the cartoon. As Mike and a few others have pointed out some people initially just didn’t know about the connection. I know it never crossed my mind, I thought it was about Pelosi and her cohorts. I am glad about this aspect of the furor. It confirms we have made strides. No one in our society should make this connection or feel it’s aimed at them.
I’d like to see everyone drop the race issue, not because I want it shoved under the rug. I don’t want anyone to forget about slavery or the civil rights era. We as a people need to advance past the point of looking down anyone, especially blacks. The largest majority of blacks are hard working, good people just trying to raise their kids the best they can. It’s the very small percentage, for both our ethnic groups, black and white, that make us both look bad.
There are so many things we can share and respect. So many issues we need to focus on together.
Like what the hell are they doing to out food!! Since when did money become more important than the potential death of a child for eating peanut butter!
I can honestly say this is one of the best online conversations I’ve been in. So much passion, and give and take. Thank you.
If you can think of anyone else I can write to about the image issue please let me know. I didn’t include the television industry, I don’t watch television so I have no idea what they’re up to in terms of image.
SJ – Just saw your post to Mike, I was writing my post to you LOL.
Drugs, unfortunately effects everyone, white, black Hispanic and everyone in between. It has no ethnic preference. The sixties made drugs acceptable and it’s been crazy ever since. And it’s glaringly obvious we can’t stem the flow. The economics of drug is such that the tide can never be turned back. I did a paper in college about the economics of drugs and the only viable solution I could see was complete legalization. The government spends billions on the ‘war on drugs’ without making a dent.
California’s cash crop, and I used ’92 for my paper, wasn’t oranges it was ghanja to the tune of $9 Billion. That’s one drug, one state. Hell Cali could almost fund the war on drugs by themselves lol. But seriously, drugs fund terror in our country and fund terror in other places like Afghanistan – their cash crop – poppies.
Legalization is the only answer I can see for a way out. Legalize it, package it, sell it and tax it. It eliminates street sales if people can go to Bartell or Walgreen and buy what they want. And little kids, of every race won’t be selling for their parent, older siblings etc. Doing time in juvie if they get caught. Seeing it as an alternative to education, because of the money and our school system is, to be blunt, for shit.
We are going to have drug users in this country whether we like it or not just like any other country on this planet. In Saudi they have tents you can smoke hash in. Amsterdam has legalization, their crime rate is low and stable.
The second prong to legalization. Use the after tax profit to fund schools, we could have top of the line schools in this country. Make eduation more appealing, make kids, especially inner city kids know they have good education available to them, instructors, computers, hell even books. It’s pathetic these kids don’t have books.
I’m a very strong advocate for legalization. This is no other way. You can’t stop it. Take away the street profit, the mystique. Keep our little ones out of juvie.
Probably not what you want to hear but it makes monetary sense and it’s common sense.
Hi everyone, this is Joshua Steimle, the author on this blog. Given that most of my posts on this relatively new blog get zero responses, I’m thrilled with the discussion that has taken place as a result of this one and hope you’ll read some of my other posts as well.
Given your interest in this topic, I believe all of you would be interested in reading the book Enough: The Phony Leaders, Dead-End Movements, and Culture of Failure That Are Undermining Black America–and What We Can Do About It by Juan Williams. I just finished it and it’s an amazingly candid and frank look at the challenges facing black Americans, especially those living in poverty. It draws heavily from Bill Cosby’s famous speech before the NAACP on the 50th-anniversary celebration of Brown v. Board of Education wherein he points out that there is a certain segment of the black population that lives as though Brown v. Board of Education never happened, and that regardless of whose fault it is, it’s up to poor black people to pull themselves out of the mess they’re in.
* Many states cash crop is still ghanj to this day. It hasn’t changed.
I have meetings for the rest of today I’ll try to get back tonight but it’ll be late. Peace.
Thank you Joshua,for starting the blog. I will check out that book definetly. You are right. As slow as the process may seem, more and more blacks are trying and pulling their selves out of this mess. Please understand that cartoon also offends us group of people who have been progressing. And race relations have certainly progressed. I wish there was no need for a NAACP and that Sharpton could actually grow old peacfully. I am in total agreement with what Cosby said.
I have never once considered anything positive about legalizing drugs because I have seen up close what drugs do. But honestly MO for the first time I am actually persuaded to think otherwise or at least try something different with legalization, because we can’t keep doing they same thing expecting a different result. If it would yield the result you mentioned – then what the hell legalize it I say.
This is the type of conversation Murdoc should be broadcasting or printing. This is respect towards one another. This is real talk. This is progress!
Im typing this from my cell so this may not be as elegant as my other posts.
Im sorry that you find me ignorant. I chose my words very carefully in my last post. I never stated that the chimpanzee reference should be accepted and told just to deal with it. I was merely making the point that wherever that line is drawn, there will be those that ar offended. also, was 100% of the African American population offended by the post? I am a very mathematical person and therefore do not believe in absolutes. Therefore, I am sure there at least 1 that wasnt offended. How do we determine what percentage is acceptable and how do we determine how we calculate that percentage? What if a group of 2 folks form their own exclusive group and both determine that a certain image is offensive? Should we ban that image now even though the rest of the population didnt find that image offensive? It is a very slippery slope down the 1st ammendment and censorship.
As far as legalizing drugs, I agree. Its not that I think drugs are good or should be encouraged, but more that I feel it is costly and unwinnable. The money could be used better in other places and the tax revenue generated by the sales would greatly help struggling cities. I really think that if we go down that path, all drug users need to be registeredand should be required to attend a clinic or therapy on at least a bi weekly basis. If there drug usage is severely affecting their immediate families well being than their drug use permit be revoked and immediate intervention required
Mike I never said you were ignorant just like I never said the goverment should solve black on black crime. But hey let’s just agree to disagree and more imporatantly just be respectful of each others opinions and feelings on the subject matter. If we just did that right there, it would take us along way. Is it so hard to respect that some were offended and that this type of behavior should be codemned, just like we would codemn Rev Wright. As opposed to be just simply choosing to be sensitive to others for a second, must we go around in circles about statistics, alterior motive, rational so on. If your girlfriends says hey I’m not happy with you, you would probaly want to know why. There is calculating statistical why woman are a not happy in relationships, and what they do wrong, etc.
Fact is the cartoon offended many African Americans who understood the history behind minstral entertainment and apparently offended some white people as well.
Mike I never said you were ignorant just like I never said the goverment should solve black on black crime. I don;t thing you are ignorant at all in fact. But hey let’s just agree to disagree and more importantly just be respectful of each others opinions and feelings on the subject matter. Why is this always too much to ask from some human beings? If we just did that right there, it would take us along way in race relations. Is it so hard to respect that some were offended and that this type of behavior should be codemned, just like we would codemn Rev Wright. As opposed to just simply choosing to be sensitive to others for a second, must we go around in circles about statistics, alterior motive, rational and so on. If your girlfriend says hey I’m not happy with you, you would probaly want to know why. There is calculating statistical why woman are not happy in relationships, and what they do wrong, and if they are imagining things etc.
Fact is the cartoon offended many African Americans who understood the history behind minstral entertainment and apparently offended some white people as well.
I respect the fact that there were some that were offended. I do not think anyone should act in a manner that does not blatantly try to offend others. I am just raising the question about how to balnce free speech into the equation with the ndesire not to offend people. No matter how pure our intentions are, we are going to offend someone someday. It may be as simple as something being taken out of context or it may be not knowing that certain words have double meanings. I do not presume that I know every single word, all of their legitimate usages as well as what context that word or phrase may draw offense. I just dont want to live in a society where we need to walk on egg shells around each other or limit our interactions with other ethnic groups out of fear of offending them in some way we never intended.
I also do not presume to know every possible stereotype that exists. Do we need to have classesin school that go over each of these to make sure no one offends? Or will this be counter productive and just make things worse now that everyone knows all the mean stuff?
There are no good answers but we can not create a society that we are so afraid to offend that we fail to interactwith each other. There has to be room for the accidental and occassional slip up that will occur by not knowing 100% of another cultures background prior to reaching out to them
I agree with you totally Mike on everything and respect your concerns. I don’t want anybody to be afraid to communicate because that is what will hold progress back. It is difficult to believe that people are scared to communicate or say something wrong and yet we have people jumping out of planes and climbing mountains for no freakin reason other than the sport of it.
A major problem is that even after African Americans have spoken up about what we find offensive for decades now and so many have died, it still continues to be pervasive in the media and entertainment. THIS IS WHY WE SHOULD NOT AS HUMAN BEINGS ACCEPT IT. These some of these mediums promote the ideals and mindsets that hold us back. He knew exactly what he was doing. That artist has done racist cartoons before. He is part of the media. He knows what’s risky and what is not offensive just as much as you or I. He’s not stupid. You can have Freedom of Speech, but you cannot yell fire in a crowded theatre without having some consequences. You and I know not to yell fire, but if someone else didn’t – do you think the authorities would let that person off the hook cause he just didn’t he was going to cause a riot and stampede that in turn results in a few movie goers dying.
We don’t need to create a society where people are afraid to offend. We do need to create a society where people are educated about each other more closely. Then maybe we can get to learn not to offend.
I just wanted to add that a mainly conservative Supreme Court when G.W.Bush was still in office just ruled that the disparities in the mandatory minimums for certains drugs (those sold by mainly young black males) and others were wrong and they are working on not only changing that and influencing states to do the same on there level but also are working on reducing some of there stentences. So its no longer a conspiracy theory, even though we have been saying this for years, it reality and it has been deeemed wrong. I’m pretty much 100% where MO is when it comes to my opinion on drugs but think about it. I’m about to be steorotypical but it is to prove a point so bare with me- Say there is a Hispanic young man, a White young man, and a Black young man. All three decide they are going to sell drugs. They Hispanic guy is sell powdered cocaine, the white guy id selling crystal meth, and the black dude is selling crack. When they get caught selling the Hispanic guy has to have 10 times the amount of drugs as the black dude to get equal amount of time in prison and the white guy may just get a slap on the wrist depending on what state he is in because there is not even a mandated sentencing on a federal level for that. So with odds like that any body can do the math and see that there are going to be more black men in prison. But fortunately now this has been acknowledge so hopefully things will get bettter. Also I wanted to add I don’t know any black people who think the Dr Cornell West is an “Uncle Tom” he actually has alot of respect even in the Hip-Hop community so I think that is just one of the generalizations MO is talking about.
S.Jones I wanted to say that you said everything else I wanted to say but did not feel like typing. the majority of black people are making a decent living and trying to build for the future. All of my friend are college educated, married woth houses that are not in foreclosure. You don”t see this on TV.
MO and S.JONES I appreciate both of you gentlemen. You both have excellent points and stated them very good. This also has been one of the best post for me. It good to talk to normal people instead of extremist and internet freaks =) I think this was insightful even if it was just for the 3 of us hoprfully domeoone else who is just reading too.
Yes. We need to encourage an environment where communication is encouraged. Education would be nice. However, let’s face it, most of us won’t remember very much of it. I think that long term retention of knowledge is somewhere around 5% or less. After all, how much of your non-major classes do you actually remember? In fact, I’m sure just naming all of the non major classes would be challenge enough. Therefore, even with all of the education in the world, there is a very strong likelihood that you’ll forget a lot of stuff about a lot of people, which could still put you in the position to offend someone or some group of people unwittingly even if that wasn’t meant at all. It is human nature to fail. We learn more from our failure’s more than we do from our successes. I believe that Edison made about 999 light bulbs that didn’t work before he found the one that did. When asked about it, he replied something to the affect that I did not fail 999 times to make a light bulb, I just learned 999 ways to invent it. My point is that if someone says something that ends up being accidentally offensive, there needs to be an environment of “hey, btw, did you know that this is offensive because of xyz?” Rather than the perception of “If you screw up, we’re going to make sure you lose your job and destroy your life” In the BTW environment, I’m sure the response would simply be, “Oh my gosh, I am so sorry, I had no idea” The latter would serve only to create a divide between the races. I’m sure many people have interpreted the story this way where if you accidentally screw up, there could be some serious accidental and financial ramifications coming their way. Sadly, the only way to ensure that you don’t offend anyone is to not say anything else at all.
As far as not being portrayed favorably in the media goes, why can’t the African American community ban together and boycott performing or getting paid for any such roles? As a community decide that it is more important to do what is right rather than go after the almighty dollar. And decide not to watch shows that project those images. You do that for a very short period of time and you’ll have a major impact. Out of the shows my wife and I watch, I can’t think of any that portray African American’s in a negative light. And in fact, several are main characters (3 on Grey’s Anatomy, 2 on scrubs, 1 on Numbers, 1 on House and 2 on Private Practice)
This conversation has become cyclical. No matter what points are presented, the light they are given, or the level of understanding presented: The major core of the issue remains untouched. Simply put– this man should not be fired simply because a few people were upset about what he wrote. Period. I think that this argument, as with most of the other comments made here, reeks of hypocrisy.
Allison. I think you are oversimplifying my points. If his intentions were racially motivated than he should be reprimanded. If they were an honest and legitimate mistake, there needs to be a framework to allow people to learn and grow from their mistakes. I am sorry you feel that view is hypocritical, but I believe we all are going to make mistakes and we should all be given the chance to learn from those mistakes without being severely reprimanded. Have you Allison ever made a mistake and became a better person because you learned something from it?
Mike, I do believe it really is that simple. If his point was racially motivated ignore it. It’s like that cliche your parents told you about school yard bullies…
Seriously though, why do you care what this guy draws? I don’t think this man made a single reference to black on black crime, drugs, incarceration rates, rap music, or anything else for that matter. You are making this argument way deeper than it really needs to be.
If this cartoon was a mistake the man should be offered a chance to learn from it, not fired (both him and his editor??????????). If it was from an evil and sinister point of view — who are you to dictate the level of reprimand that he receives? Does he get to tell your boss how to handle your mistakes? Your intentional infractions? Your insubordination? Then why should you be allowed to amass on the street in front of his place of employment and demand action against him? Do you not see just how simple this is?
If you walk around with hate in your heart and expect to see that hate reflected in the world, is that not what you will see? Do you not find it insulting to the memory of those that fought and died for a serious cause to marginalize racism in this way? At what point is is necessary for a group of people to actually let the past rest and pursue the future?
I think this point sums everything up the best…
who are you to dictate the level of reprimand that he receives?
If that truly is your position, then why are you in a position and the NAACP to demand that he be fired?
My whole point can be summarized by the following quote:
“To err is human; to forgive is divine.”
— Alexander Pope
If it truly was a mistake, why can’t we forgive? If it was a mistake, why do we need retribution?
Ok Mike I can really respect your point of view on this. Let’s give and take. Most likely the guy will not be fired despite the NAACP efforts. Ultimately he gets a pass. Let’s say we give him the benefit of the doubt and drop wanting him fired. Let’s say he actually learns from the mistake even. Then two months later another artist draws a cartoon or another media outlet decides to run the line of offending someone in yet another instance. Should that party too be given a second chance too learn. Why is it that they have not learned from the first guy who drawed the cartoon. See where I’m going with this? Why did the editor not do the research on the possibility of offending someone? They can learn from the previous guys mistakes right? Why can’t he have learned from Don Imus, or the Golf Channel lady who made the comments about lynching Tiger Woods, or the female broadcaster on FOX who made the comments about assasinating Obama, or Hillary and Bill Clinton’s racial comments about Obama, or the broadcaster who came up with the whole Terrorist Fist Bump thing…..and the list goes on. These are all intelligent people but why are they not thinking before speaking that each of their comments might go over to well. Logically one could make the assumption that they are choosing to be ignorant to the effects of their words. Please forgive me for sounding passionate about this, but where does it end. Not caring what they say and ignoring it has just never worked either. Addressing the issue despite the risk such as what King or Rosa Parks and many white people who stood up is what has gotten us this far. Those folks didn’t have hate in their hearts Allison. They were allowed to amass on the street because that was their constitutional right. They too has a right to speak out and protest under Free Speech. They had to do it responsibly though.
Should we just ignore all of this and let it role off our backs. Are we too not respectable Americans just as much as Jews, Mexicans, Indians, Russians, Irish, Arabs, Asians and so on? I’d like to think so.
You’d think Sharpton would be so tired of fighting these battles, I know I would. We have entire cultures around the world ready to destroy this country over ignorance. It has to stop somewhere. People who have the ears of a massive audience have to be held accountable for what they put out there good or bad.
My boss is white and asiam mixed. If I made a racial slur that offended him, without even knowing he was white, do I get a chance to say “sorry I didn’t know you were white, I just thougt you were asian – but I do have a right to free speech so you better not fire me”. I’d be fired – period and it is that simple.
Let’s give the cartoonist a chance to learn from his mistake, and then see how short our attention spans have become when the next instance occurs from another person who just didn’t know better enough to learn from the last guy’s mistake. Mike do you see why it just makes it difficult to let these things slide? There is always some reasonable explanation or misunderstanding to explain things away.
I so would like the past to rest, and for this country to move beyond race as I have in life, but the cartoonist and the other comments from the people I mentioned earlier just keep reminding me I might not be as American as I would like to think I am. That’s all I’m trying to say.
Allison if a man constantly makes a pass towards you everday at work for 6 months even after you’ve told him numerous times to stop, he still continues to offend you to the point of discomfort, do you simply ignore him for another six months? Or do you contact the HR department to address the situation. Let’s say he doesn’t know any better even though he’s heard of several instances of men getting fired for the same offense and you have already told him to stop more times than you can count, do you think that man should be terminated? How would you like it if HR told you “hey this isn’t all of what you are making it out be. Why do you care what this guy says to you every day.” How might that make you feel?
You’re right. Ideally, in a perfect world, we would all learn from each other’s mistakes. It certainly would have made my life a lot easier to collectively have the knowledge and experience of every human being that ever lived. Unfortunately, human nature is not like that. People have been killing people for centuries. There used to be public executions for certain crimes but yet seeing one person executed does not deter everyone from making that same crime. There are only a finite number of laws on the books in this country but yet we’ve jailed several times that factor into our prison system and issued how many citations and tickets? History has proven time and time again that seeing one person falter for a crime is no way a permanent deterrent. So, if that hasn’t happened through couple thousand years of human experience I sincerely doubt that is a trait that we are going to start to have now.
Just as I believe everyone probably deserves a second chance, especially if what they did they didn’t know was wrong, I don’t believe in cumulative justice. If 500 people got a way with something, the 501st person should receive 500 times the punishment. Everything should be dealt with on an individual basis as he may not even have known any of the other 500 individuals. Why should we fault the one individual because they failed to embrace cumulative knowledge and experience, which is a trait that as mention above that human kind does not possess? It would be better to have a public discussion with the aim of educating folks why certain behaviors are not acceptable in certain circles.
If something was honestly and truly a mistake and there is not a history of similar errors in the past and they did not believe what they were doing was wrong, then they definitely deserve a second chance. However, if they have exhibited the same pattern of behavior then they should be reprimanded accordingly.
As far as Sexual Harassment goes as you alluded to above. There are a lot of black and white areas associated with it as well as a lot of grey. If the offense is in one of the black and white areas that that should be grounds for immediate reprimand/talking to, etc. Its the grey areas that have always worried me since all the videos seem to make it be basically whatever the individual finds offensive and leaves the door open for wide interpretation. In that case, I believe that the expectation needs to be clearly delivered to the offending party at least once before any action should be taken, as there is no way for an individual to reasonably know what expectations they are being held to.
And that is pretty much my whole point. There are black and white areas as well as grey in life. What one person sees as black and white, another may see as grey based on our core principles and who we are. If we take actions in the grey area, we should be given the opportunity to find out that that behavior is someone else’s black and white and allow us to modify our behavior accordingly. I doubt that there is any two individuals that you can line up in the same room whose core value system will be 100% the same on every single issue. Whether it be a husband and wife, two friends, or 2 individuals from different ethnic groups or 2 family members. I’m sure that there will always be something that you find to disagree on.
Allison – Hypocrisy? No one here has been hypocritical. Mike and I stand by the man not being reprimanded or fired, it’s very possible his was an honest mistake. S.J. and Nicole believe he should be reprimanded. Where is the hypocrisy? Your comment about our posts re black on black crime, rap music etc was asinine and uncalled for. Adult conversations meander, you have had an adult conversation haven’t you? Regardless of subject matter the posts they have stayed on topic – racism and perception. Many things in this world are intrinsically intertwined. If you don’t like reading the posts then make the choice not to, and don’t post anymore if you have nothing to add but insults. Everyone else is having a healthy debate.
Briefly touching on the drug issue, I think we can all agree the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. The war on drugs is just that. I too have seen what drugs do. Growing up in the drug culture, you can’t avoid it. And I’m sure we all know someone who is dead or is irretrievably lost due to their choices. I know I do, I have friends that are dead due to their choices. But if we can’t stop it, and we can’t, then we may as well attempt to balance the yin and yang with education.
LOL Mike I like your calling it a ‘btw environment’, I call it the ‘drive thru mentality’.
I am worried about the state of communication in our society. No one wants to walk on eggshells around everyone else. I was elated to see how many people thought the cartoon was about the HOR/Senate and weren’t aware of the monkey correlation. I am also disappointed this correlation has been pointed out. Wasn’t it better that people did not make this correlation? This is what we’ve been striving for – the lack of these types of connections. Mike has a valid point. As we have advanced this far why take the two steps back. I don’t know all of the potentially offensive images or word associations for every ethnic group either. As the younger generations come up they have no need to learn these things if they never made the connection to begin with. Blatant, crass things like the ‘n’ word are obvious for everyone but the less known should be left less known. If fewer and fewer people are aware of the correlations it should be left that way so it can completely fade out because it will. As witnessed by the cartoon.
There will always be racism but as old coots like Imus and his nasty mouth drop off the less pronounced, in society as a whole, it will be. Each generation has been taught to be more aware and sensitive and the one prior. As a parent I don’t make racial slurs as a result my child will not be inclined to do so and see people that make a practice of it for what they are. But I can’t teach my child every slur or slight.
Crap I gotta fly. Another long day of meetings on this project. I’ll catch you all later if we’re all back. Peace.
Point taken Mike and Mo. I may not necessarily agree with some of white Mike says as far as human nature but I will be open minded and go with your point that he didn’t know he was making a mistake. Mind you – I have heard he has made racist cartoons before (I have not seen those cartoons so I cannot verify if they are offensive). Let’s just say for the sake of this discussion this was his first time and it was a mistake. I personally don’t beleive if it was truly a mistake than he should be fire. You are right in that we are progressing in terms of what to say and what not say. I think the only reason why we got this far is by listening and learning what would offend versus what would not. I’m not saying you’d have to walk on eggshells.
I did say “Give and Take”. Let me address your concerns then. The problem is the FEAR that someone will say something wrong and another will get offended until you get to the point you can’t say anything. I get that. But we just can’t live in FEAR to communicate with one another as humans(please don’t characterize that cartoon as communication because it was merely satire and entertainment at best to some). I’m pretty sure you know that in the times of post civil war when slaves were freed, blacks had to be scared to communicate to whites of other races for fear of reprimand or death. For decades blacks were scared in most cases for their lives and some did lose them for simply saying “Hello Maam”. Times have changed now and many have over come that FEAR to speak. I know we still have some problems with the things we say. But we have also learned what is approrpriate or not. Blacks and just people period had to learn to not offend simply to move forward in this country. If they had failed to out of fear, there would be pandamonium now. I know many hate the protest from Sharpton, but in the late 60′s and 70′s there were Black Panthers with guns to say the least – trying to communicate with force. That didn’t work so we adopted King’s peaceful appoach. That’s TRIAL and ERROR. The point is we never stopped trying to communicate, FEAR or no FEAR. I don’t mean to harp on Jewish people nor disrespect (that’s the dang closest example I can think of) but this country has learned not to say certain things risking offense or preface ther words carefully so as not to offend. Nobody is scared to talk to Jews. Why because EDUCATION kills FEAR and DOUBT. It is human nature to FEAR what you don’t UNDERSTAND, but you can never UNDERSTAND IF YOU DON’T COMMUNICATE. This is what I was talking about in one of my post. We are communicating now without FEAR using this blog as a medium and gaining an understanding of one another. Am I saying that you are scared of black people, nope. I’m saying from all the negative imagery you’ve been presented with in the media, you may not understand how you could possibly go about engaging without offending. Is that it? As I said before there is no book or guide on what not to say. So I guess you too have no choice other than TRIAL AND ERROR. If you don’t know what offends, simply ask. Accidently offends, simply appologize and avoid the subject. That’s LEARNING. We all learned to shy away from talking Politics and Abortion in the work place right? We can’t even communicate with Lions and Tigers in cages, but we have already learned not to step foot in thier cages. I know this is a little different but you see my point.
When it comes to offensiveness we really are going to have to work on shrinking that grey area of understanding through education of one another. If that 501st person didn’t know not to yell FIRE in a crowded movie theatre, he would have to live in a bubble with no ouside communication to not know the effects of his actions. As I said before if one makes a mistake than they should be left to learn from it, but where does responsibility began? The NAACP is asking for jobs because they are saying as professionals they should already know when they are running the line of offensiveness especially working for Murdoc. We can’t leave that point out.
Another point that is getting lost here is, we are dealing with Mr. Fox News and this is the Post we are talking about. Many in this blog have never read the Post and don’t actually know what kind of paper it is. I used to live in Queens, New York City. I have read the Post. It’s not the most respectable creditable balanced newspaper out there – not like the Daily News, USA Today or NYTimes. It’s border line Enquirer commentary news. Please consider the source.
Do we not try to communicate with Alien species for FEAR we might say something wrong? What is more important to you – FEAR of failure to communicate without offending, or FEAR of what could come from no communication in this society and world.
Have you guys read anywhere in what I have said that would indicate that I am calling for this guy to get fired?
Adult conversations meander… um–ok. But you still have to follow along and pay attention to what was said.
Not only do I think this guy should keep his job, I also firmly believe that Don Imus should not have been fired.
ALLISON is still in her little bubble not able to hear what others are saying so I say so be it. I’m sure the rest of us have gained something from this post so that is her loss. I feel all of you guys as i stated before. I differ with MO because i don’t think that racial insensitivities that originated here, and like it or not, are a part of our history should be forgotten. Feel me on this. Most black Americans only know there history in America thats it. we don’t even know all of that because our ancestors are slaves. So we can’t be like my people came from here or trace our family tree back too far. As I stated earlier it might be painful but it is our past and I don’t think the solution is to simply forget it. That is said alot but it is also known not to forget the past so it won’t repeat itself so it seems to me we are supposed to hold this true in everything else except for our history. I think that teaches blacks that the have something to be ashamed of. I am not ashamed of my ancestor because despite all of the hardship we over came and we may still be overcoming but we have made progress. If black people know anything about where they came from
its going to be harsh because we have had a harshh past in this country. Forgetting is not the answer. I kinda feel like that would be the easy option so then know one would be uncomfortable but it is not wise. SJ is right education is the key then people won’t be fearful of what to say when they know and understand this part of American history. I’m personally facinated by it. It may be alot of negativity but also there is a lot of perserverance and stories survivors that are incredible. This history has been shut out of the education of most Americans and that is part of the problem. I want to let people know that in this country my ancestors were considered less than human at one time and were compared to monkeys. It may be shameful for some but compared to where we are from those times it show the progession of a oppressed people to greatness in alot of ways. I mean I stdied the Iliad and Dante’s Inferno and that was before America as a nation was even thought about so i don’t think we should take a whole part of history and simply forget it. The way I see it is if someone tries to use any of the things of the past against me now then they were a ignorant peson who would have tried to do me harm in the first place. Alot of time its not just the act but the whole clueless theatrics that piss people off. ( I must add now after discussing with you guys i won’t be as quick to think that they are “clueless theatrics” and take in consideration that the person really may not know what is wrong, see I’m getting better too and it’s all because we were not scared to have this discussion)
Allison,
Yes, following along and paying attention are imperative for conversation. So follow along and pay attention – You are one crass, low rent person to support Imus and the comments he made. Unlike the cartoonist, where the benefit of the doubt could be applied, Imus’s comments were very much to the point, no misunderstanding or even the remotest chance misinterpretation. He deserved to lose his job. It’s a shame his CBS paid out his contract and he managed to find another job. Thank you though for so eloquently exposing what you are and as a bonus – your IQ.
SJ, Nicole & Mike,
SJ – To answer the question you posed about communication I’m concerned about both, they are intertwined. If people do not know what offends, in its entirety, they will fear a failure to communicate without offending which in turn leads to decreased communication. Which is the last thing anyone wants. Nicole, I agree and have stated I don’t want people to ignore history in any way. I want people to know the history of this country, it’s imperative. The fact we actively participated in genocide in this country, murdering almost every Native American we could get our hands on. The fact blacks were slaves, denied the right to vote, employment conditions etc and the fact they were considered second class citizens simply due to the color of their skin. And a plethora of other brutal realities. Those not knowing history are doomed to repeat it. Collectively none of us have disagreed about this.
But I agree with Mike I don’t want to teach offensive things to people because it’s counter-productive. And let’s face it, for some, they don’t need any additional ammo they’ve been taught enough already by narrow minded, bigoted parents and others. It’s a double edged sword I guess, I mean you want people to know what’s offensive however actually teaching these things is a bad idea. And at the same time it’s also great they don’t know because it means they’ve never been taught these things. You see what I’m getting at?
I don’t like Sharpton because he is a hypocrite. I feel he’s an opportunist and uses blacks to keep his name in the paper. For example he recently came out in favor of the draft knowing full well wealthy people’s children don’t get drafted. Poor and middle class young black men (and white) will be on the hit list. He cannot claim on one hand to care about poor black people and what happens to them, and then advocate the draft knowing history dictates who will be drafted, as Vietnam clearly demonstrated. He is not only aware of our historical draft record, he also knows his kids or grandchildren will not be drafted. He can be for the draft but needs to qualify this statement with everyone is on the hit list black, white, green, rich and poor.
“I’m saying from all the negative imagery you’ve been presented with in the media, you may not understand how you could possibly go about engaging without offending. Is that it?”
I don’t pay attention to media generated imagery, the way they generalize you’d think every singe Hispanic in the US is illegal. Considering my friends who happen to be black are good people I believe most blacks are good people, they’re no different than anyone else. No, personally I’m not concerned about communicating without offending, if I were to accidently offend someone out of ignorance, for example not knowing about the monkey connection, I would hope and expect them to tell me. I know my friends would because they know me, and I would never knowingly say anything ugly. Throughout the years I’ve had more than one of my black friends comment that I don’t see color. I’ve always taken pride in this assessment.
I’ve made my faux pas but they somehow always involve women lol. For example, in college one of my women friends tried out for a sports team she didn’t make the cut. When I asked she told me what happened and stated she was going to tryout for cheerleading. My response and major faux pas – “Well cool I hope you make it! If you can’t be an athlete you can always be an athletic supporter”. This look came across her face and it took me a second to process what I’d said. And worse yet I played sports! I didn’t mean it the way it came out, she barely spoke to me after that even though I apologized. She was intent on believing I was being an ass and it wasn’t an honest slip up. Just had to share that – lol I was mortified.
I don’t read the Post, haven’t in a long time. I stick with the Times and Daily News, so I’m not familiar with the cartoonist in question. I would need to look at his archives, although if he’s drawn other political cartoons that were conceived as openly racist he should have been publicly called out before now. Why did the NAACP not respond before?
We all know we can’t stop communicating. And we can’t teach racist remarks. So historical education and trial and error is all we have. But through trial and error we can’t have knee jerk reactions and fire people, destroying their lives for honest mistakes which is one of the points Mike made. I’d rather assume the mistake was honest, giving this man the benefit of the doubt is better than destroying his life. Since it hit the AP and went worldwide, everyone knows this is not acceptable and more importantly he knows this is not acceptable. He, and others, should have learned from this incident they cannot feign innocence in the future.
MO: you personally insulted me I want you fired. Where do you work so I can come stand outside with a sign. Oh, and a bull horn.
Nicole: Thankfully you are incorrect and I do not live in a bubble. I am well aware of what is going on, and just because you don’t agree with what I said does not make me wrong.
My IQ is doing fine thank you for asking. There is absolutely no reason the guy should have lost his job — or been prevented from working in the future. He is now and was then a shock DJ. It is specifically his job to say stuff that will make people stop in their tracks: AND THE PEOPLE THE COMMENT WAS DIRECTED TOWARDS WERE SATISIFIED WITH THE RETRACTION HE MADE. The cartoonist is suffering the same fate right now at the hands of a few reverse racists that want to see him fired simply to make some sort of profound political statement. I don’t in any way think that makes me crass… perhaps you don’t understand what that means.
I still don’t understand why some people believe that they have the right to dictate who works and who doesn’t just because something was said that made them upset. Free speech is not just an excuse it is part of the foundation of this country. Systematically chipping away at that freedom to appease any group is contrary to our bill of rights and the entire foundation of this country. I stand by my statement earlier: If you don’t like what is being said, simply don’t listen.
Forgetting entire periods of history is silly, but running around screaming about retribution 150 years later is just as ridiculous. Nobody alive today suffered as a slave or knew anybody that suffered as a slave. So learning about the tragedy is sufficient. Not repeating it is also a good idea.
“Since it hit the AP and went worldwide, everyone knows this is not acceptable and more importantly he knows this is not acceptable. He, and others, should have learned from this incident they cannot feign innocence in the future.”
AGREED!!!!
No one actually wants the artist’s or editor’s life ruined, mistake or intentional. Again please pay attention to who owns the Post. They make money off of this type of publicity which is why the continure to do this. But no one wants these two individuals careers ruined, blacklisted, or killed. Most reasonable (black) people are intelligent enough to not allow our passion to turn into hate. The NAACP is not a hate organization. You have never seen a sign that says “kill them” or “hate them” in a protest. Nor have you ever seen this in a Sharpton or Jesse Jackson rally. And if you have please show me the picture, because I’ll personally hold them accountable. When others say they are contributing to the hate, we as blacks simply don’t see how. Especially when there are other organizations that clearly pride themselves on those kind of signs and marches and are freely allowed to express extreme hate. It’s not about trying to get media attention. If no one had brought to the attention alot of racial desparity, you wouldn’t know for example about former Chicago Police Commander Jon Burge. He got away with his doings for years (research that). But we don’t want people’s lives ruined, and being fired doesn’t mean the end of life. Look at Imus again. If there were truly a witch hunt for him, notice Imus got another job back and has refrainded from such comments and no one has boycotted. That’s not because we forgot, or we are too busy. It’s because we have forgiven and moved on. So you see we do have the capacity to forgive and move one after being wronged.
A real serious problem I think some (white) people have is that they automatically dismiss information relating to racism as though it could not possibly be true in this day and age. Please re-read Beverly’s post again. It is profound! People of all races comprise of this country. But blacks and whites have shared and built this country from the ground up and yet we cannot all yet properly engage each other having not learned each other so that we don’t offend each other. It’s a hard pill to swallow. When you go on vacation to another country, you research that country, logistically, languistically, culturely, and so on. We can do all that for a visit to another country, but right here at home in the US – that doen’t pan out so well. Why is that?
MO, I like Sharpton on a whole, and still I don’t agree with him 100% or even 80% of the time. As for the media, understand there is a highly symbiotic relationship between him and the media. He does need to call the media for them to show up. The media loves him because he’s good for their ratings as is anyone they consider contraversial. His use of the media to get out a message is no different than a comentator’s getting out message. He’s not the monster the media makes him out to be. I can;t say the same for Rush Limbag. But Sharpton is no saint and neither are we for that matter. To fight for equality, justice, and fairness is not actually a bad thing due to some of the things we see in today’s climate. I still long for the day when he and other civil rights era organizations are simply not needed. Believe – so do they. I honestly do not know his stand on the draft so I can’t argue for him nor would defend anybody that can better defend themselves. I assure if Sharpton has ever stepper out of line, Black Americans would have held his feet to the fire. We’ve done the same to the NAACP and other organizations.
Allison LOL. WE ARE A NATION OF COWARDS! Regarding your comment on Imus – Why do some even need Shock Jocks and controversial comentators and cable channels? Are they saying something you yourself actually want to say, and allowing you to avoid the backlash from it? Are they a perferred vehical to get across your similiar ideas in the safer confines of your home? Are they vital to your life and important to keep in thier positions to broadcast? Do they represent you and your opinions? Why do some need contraversy and division? What is the purpose? Does that really advance us as a country? Why do you defend it when it only sets us back? Is the benefit to you more than the cost to us all as a nation? Allison as long as you believe that it was Imus’s job is to say what he said, that mindset will always justify the purpose for the existence of the NAACP. You want insults and bigotry to just happen to people of any color than you had better get very accustomed to the outcome of protest, stomping and outrage.
MO, MIKE, and NICOLE I think we have made much progress in our discussions. I do respect and understand your side altogether MO & MIKE. We might not agree 100% but 80% is close enough for me. I know I have gained a lot of insight. We basically all want the same things here in life. Education of one another and communication is the key to really moving forward to a day of peace understanding. There will always be those that just don’t want to walk with us for their own personal reasons. And that’s cool too.
Know that we are in a state if progression in our understanding of each other. In a state of progression, we on either side cannot keep making the same arguments and expressing the same fears for we will get the same result of a non-solution. And yet if we do that does not me we should stop communicating. This is an exercise in building a bridge towards understanding one another. An understanding does not have to mean we will completely agree. The progress is in the education of the conversation and the consideration for another oppinion other than your own. We have to combat divisiveness, educate each other about each other and just plain listen.